panel // palestine & the politics of curation

Rami Younis is a filmmaker, journalist, and co-founder of the Palestine Music Expo (PMX), the largest showcase of Palestinian musical talents, about the effort to introduce Palestinian musical artists to the world and build a robust Palestinian music industry. Rami Younis and DCPFAF co-founder Noura Erakat will discuss the history of these efforts, the challenges amidst violent legal and political fragmentations, and PMX's potential for helping to build an emancipatory future. Established in 2017, the Palestine Music Expo is the largest showcase of Palestinian musical talents in the world. From bands, to solo artists, DJs, and the producers, music technicians, and songwriters that make it happen, they have all been coming together in an annual festival that has drawn thousands of Palestinians over the last three years alone.

Noura erakat is cofounder of dcpfaf.

TRANSCRIPT

[Captioner standing by]

RAMI YOUNIS: We are live now. 

NOURA ERAKAT: Welcome to our DCPFAF community and audience. We are so excited to have you here. We just got off the airwaves with Kojo Nnamdi, who is a national treasure and we are excited that the DCPFAF has become part of that legacy as well. Today, to expand our repertoire, we are honored to welcome my dear friend, compa, visionary, social entrepreneur - I know that’s a bad word in some circles - but really the creative, and creative filmmaker, Rami Younis.

RAMI YOUNIS: Hi Noura. Thank you for having me. I am honored to be here and honored to be in a conversation with you. We have been talking about this for years and finally it is happening. 

NOURA ERAKAT: Yes. The last time we talked about this, we were at Harvard where he was a fellow last year - I will read your official bio but just a quick story - and I was invited [to give a talk]. We had an epic throwdown with 

RAMI YOUSIF: A Zionist!

NOURA ERAKAT [continues]: An Israeli, a former soldier, who wanted to know if he would be prosecuted for war crimes. We said ‘yeah, probably.’ Thank you for changing the culture at Harvard.

RAMI YOUNIS: No you did that, that was all you. You made it sound like I did, but I was just in the audience, cheering you. But you did that. I think we can say the wind is shifting in academia and these Ivy League schools and people are willing to hear about Palestine now more than ever, and I think that’s also due to some of the work that you’ve been doing, Noura.  

NOURA ERAKAT: Well, that’s why we’re in this together and collaborating, right, because part of the work has been creating a critical mass at Harvard and creating a critical mass in these places. And making it so when we talk about Palestine, it is not such a big deal. It doesn't have to be a fight every time. With that, let me introduce the audience to you, formally, Rami so you can get into how you’ve been doing that through the Palestine Music Expo. Rami Younis is one of the founders of the Palestinian activist group Khutwa, which was active on the issue of home demolitions and Palestinian identity in Lydd and Ramle, two Jewish-Arab cities in occupied Palestine. Rami served as a parliamentary consultant and spokesperson for the Palestinian member of the Knesset Haneen Zoabi. He cofounded Local Call a Hebrew news site in Palestine and Israel, where he served as a writer and an editor and also wrote for the English sister site, +972 Magazine. He is also co-founder and manager of the Palestine Music Expo, an event that connects the music scene in Palestine to the worldwide industry. He is currently coproducing a science fiction documentary film called ‘Lydd in Exile,” and he was most recently a visiting fellow at Harvard Divinity School for the 2019-2020 academic year. An impressive resume. Welcome. Thank you for being with us. 

RAMI YOUNIS: Thank you for having me. 

NOURA ERAKAT: What I wanted you to do was to tell the audience more about what the Palestine Music Expo is. Give us an overview. You all were founded in 2017, how you brought the community together, what the project was, and then we will move into a space where I get to ask you a bunch of questions. 

RAMI YOUNIS: Since we are talking about the politics of curation, we should start with the Palestine Music Expo. A project that cofounded by Palestinian musicians, activists, and cultural activists such as myself, with British partnership. We’re very proud of this British partnership because we couldn’t have done it alone. In 2017, we identified the need [for this event] with Palestinian musicians. It just so happens that a lot of my friends are musicians so I know this world. I know this world. I’m not a musician myself, but I know about their struggles and what they have to go through each time a Palestinian musician wants to produce an album, it is a nightmare for them. They have to come up with the money and there is no infrastructure for an industry in Palestine, so it is a massive burden on them. 

We decided to try to connect with the worldwide music industry through an expo. We figured we would showcase all these acts on stage in one place. I mean Palestinians from ‘48 and people from ‘67. We would bring delegates from the music industry. We would be connecting the two worlds together. We figured we could bridge the gap. Up to 1948, Palestine was important in the cultural scene and music. People don't know that. What we want to do is bring that focus back on the Palestinian musicians. When I call this cultural activism, I don't mean just exporting all the Palestinian music. I mean bringing delegates from the industry and showing them what it is like to live under occupation and to be able to create and be creative. We show them the [Apartheid] Wall. We give them the entire experience of what it means to be a Palestinian. 

Each year we come up with unique stories. We brought some big names in the past. We will be able to bring, once the pandemic is over, big names from the industry in the future. In 2018, we had Brian Eno—a god in the music world—to participate. In 2018, we brought the producer of the Arctic Monkeys, the Killers [lists other well-known bands]. He came to see Palestinian musicians. 

We were called the most extreme music event in the world. I will give you a taste why they call us that. In 2018, during the day we did tours, and we did the showcases at night. During the day we have workshops with professionals, or we take them on tours to see what Palestine is really like. One day we took them to Hebron. It is the place you go to learn about apartheid. There was an Israeli settler there who saw us and tried to run us over with his car. He didn't like us there. 

People from the music industry go to festivals, conferences all over the world. These types of things don't happen in other places. These things happen in Palestine. When you have a tour in Qalandia refugee camp with a group of rappers and the delegates see the posters of martyrs everywhere around them and go to the minimal studio, it really impresses them to see how these guys are able to create under these unbearable circumstances. It is important to emphasize that we are not victimizing ourselves. 

We don't have music venues. We don't have radio stations. We don't have producers. We don't have it because of occupation. What we are trying to do actively is reach out and create these things. The PMX is up trying to communicate with the world directly 

NOURA ERAKAT: Before we continue our discussion, we want to show a short video you have been featured in multiple mainstream media outlets, scene noise, billboard, and so on. We want to show one clip from PBS NewsHour. 

>>: The Palestinian West Bank is usually discussed around the world in regards to Middle East peace talks. For the past few years, they have been trying to encourage people to open their minds and ears to what Palestine artists have to offer. John Yang gives us a firsthand look. 

>>: In a city surrounded by barriers, this festival is breaking down walls. 

>>: We are connecting Palestine to the rest of the world through music. That is what we do. 

>>: Rami Younis is the cofounder of the three-year-old Palestine Music Expo held in the West Bank. It is about sharing stages and shattering stereotypes. 

>>: This is us trying to tell the world that we are not just Gaza occupation and checkpoints. It is also cinema and music. People don't see that. We are not victimizing ourselves. 

>>: The checkpoints restrict the flow of people and of culture. 

>>: The rapper group made up of 4 young women who grew up in a refugee camp say they are challenging the status quo. 

>>: We suffer through the occupation. We rap because it is a peaceful way to cope and express ourselves and everything that has happened to us as young women. We experience occupation every day as refugees. 

>>: The group recently released a music video for "Balah Hdood", Arabic for “Without Walls.” 

>>: We have difficulties because of the checkpoints when we try to leave. They make us feel like we are not leaving with freedom. We can't leave from the airport from Palestine to other countries. 

>>: Their words take cue from civil rights movements around the world. 

>>: It is not the same problems that we experience, but rap did start with the African American community. They use it as a way to express and share with people the racism they face. We are expressing our problems. 

>>: PMX was their biggest gig to date. The group hopes to build on their warm reception. The festival brings insiders to the West Bank to Expose them to Palestinian artists. 

>>: The music they make here is extremely commercial. It would work in a number of different formats. 

>>: When we bring the delegates, real heavyweights, we ask them to team up with us. We learn from the good stuff they have done and the mistakes. We are doing our own thing based on their experience. 

>>: Organizers take them around the West Bank to show them what Palestinians daily lives are like. He has been attending the festival since the first one. 

>>: One of the big problems for musicians, whether they are based in Israel proper or one of the other areas, is getting out and playing. 

>>: Palestinians can't cross into Israel without a permit. These musicians couldn't get permits. While their bandmates played PMX, they surprised them on Skype. Organizers say at least 7 of the featured bands have performed in international festivals Kallemi. Two Israeli born women and two Swiss women of Palestinian descent. After their first collaboration, the band stuck. 

>>: It was supposed to be a one-time show. We fell in love and decided to keep going. Singer Jasmin Albash says the women are sharing a more complete representation of what this isolated land and its people have to offer. 

>>: We are not coming here and going back and saying it is hard. We are saying it was beautiful. I bring it back. It brings beauty to me. That is the magic I experience. 

>>: PMX hopes to share it with more music lovers in years to come. 

(Applause) 

NOURA ERAKAT: Congrats. That was a great feature. It covers some of the main points. It has been around for three years. You have signed 28 artists and bands to labels. It was a great summary. 

RAMI YOUNIS: I don't recall the exact number. It is a lot of bands that we were able to export. It is not just record deals. It is also going on tours. Being booked on festivals. We have a band that occupy Syrian land, they were booked on 50 international gigs. 

NOURA ERAKAT: Those numbers were just thinking about the record deals. The need to facilitate an interface. You are offering a platform to lift Palestinian artists to gain opportunities. You are transcending these real, political fragmentations that are placed not for security. The purpose is to prevent the cohesion of Palestinians being together. 

RAMI YOUNIS: When we first started PMX in 2017, we had this idea of doing two Expos. One in Haifa and one in Ramallah. We figured we are new, not big enough, not smart enough and doing a Palestine Music Expo in Israel can be problematic. We wanted a place where all Palestinians can go to. We introduce artists from all over. What was said is so important to us as a whole. 

Can I say one thing?  Each year we try to bring Palestinian musicians from Gaza. 2019 we were able to get them. Out of 25, only 14 were given a permit to cross the checkpoint and come to Ramallah. The bands didn't come through. The Israeli army said these two bands can come. These can't. The lead singer from one band came. The bassist from another. The permits were given a day before. 

The Gaza musicians had to be creative. Other musicians helped them. It was about the culture and political saying of having musicians in Gaza on our stage. 

NOURA ERAKAT: You highlight what people may understand as obvious. They may not be able to visit Palestinians elsewhere. People can't get to Jerusalem. Checkpoints are separating Palestinians from each other as well. The idea of creating or attempting to create a cultural location to be physically together is bringing awareness and creating something new. I understand that in your 2018 festival, you drew 5,000 Palestinians. That is huge. 

RAMI YOUNIS: We drew a big crowd in 2017. To us, it is about making music and the bands in Palestine accessible to audiences. If you can make it to Ramallah, come. The first year it was only 20 shackles. We only decided to charge a bit more recently. The idea is not to profit. It is to make music accessible to people. 

NOURA ERAKAT: Before we get into the difficulties of funding, I want to go back to the video it connects to our work.  They were trying to cover this and stumbled over their language. The translation was wrong. "Balah Hdood" becomes without walls instead of without borders. They are limiting Palestine to the West Bank. The nature of your entire project and who you are. 

RAMI YOUNIS: That is the lawyer in you talking. 

NOURA ERAKAT: The Palestinian in me. It is so political. Just getting into the politics of curation and what that has meant for you. I am sure there have been the politics of who you select as musical acts, having to navigate calls for boycott, and being in line with popular calls. Can you tell us about the challenges of how you navigated this politics and how you cultivated your own sense of the politics? 

RAMI YOUNIS: Fantastic question. I will try to be brief and accurate. There is no easy answer for this. When you talk about the difficulty of curating these things, you have to talk about the communities. Within ‘67, you have the villagers and people from the big city. When you talk about ‘67, you talk about the people in east Jerusalem and Gaza. ‘48 are people like me. Freedom of movement, not really. At least we can go to the West Bank. 

This whole thing creates a complex and complicated field to work in. To give you a very brief example, in 2018, a week before PMX, the Great March started. Imagine this. A week before you start the festival, you have been busting your butt for an entire year, trying to come up with money, bring in delegates, and a week before that, the Great March starts in Gaza. On the first day of the March, 14 Palestinains were killed. 

How do you make a festival after that?  We are used to mourning. We usually close everything. We go to demonstrations. We confront the army. We decided to go as planned. To have PMX 2018. We said what we do compliment what the Palestinians in Gaza do. Our cultural activism and resistance is part of their resistance. What they do is part of what we do. 

This was our message. I am happy to say that a lot of people in Gaza supported that message. They said seeing people on the stage in Ramallah dedicating their songs to the people of Gaza was important to them in these times. Some people in Gaza didn't like it. They didn't think we should be playing music while people are dying. 

In these communities, it gets more complicated. Some people told us music is harram. People are dying here. You feel like you don't want to talk to the person that says that. It is best that you do try to communicate with these people. How do you?  Sometimes it feels like you are talking two different languages. This brings another difficulty. 

Then you have the land of ‘48. A whole different thing. A whole set of problems. We have been talking about PMX. I will share another story about a year and a half ago, almost a year ago, I curated an art festival. The initiative was by Israel that was funded by the Haifa Municipality, the state. It is Israel. They have been having for 37 years what they call the “Arab cultural festival.” 

They offered that I curate it. I said, if we change the name of the festival and the content, I will curate it. I meant Palestinian cultural festival and we focus on Palestinian original artists. We want to give visibility to our own artists who make original music. I also wanted to have Palestinian films in their public space. That is why we also had an open stage. We placed cinema there. This was the first time since 1948 we were able to force the state of Israel to fund a project with the word Palestine in its title. 

That was a massive win. I did it for that. I wanted to show Israelis that Palestinian culture is part of its history. I am happy to say I found a lot of Israeli people willing to support that. Naturally, we had a lot of death threats. They all attacked us. Some artists received death threats. What was painful was seeing a lot of Palestinians that don't see what we see when we do that. That don't see me challenging the occupation and winning, we are inspiring people to celebrate the culture. ‘48 was a lot of pain. 

It is not just the identity attempts that the establishment has been doing. Attempting to erase our identities. If I call myself a Palestinian, they see it as a threat. You go through these attempts. How do you celebrate your culture? I wanted to challenge that that is what taking their money went. A lot of Palestinians didn't see it that way. That adds another level of difficulty. 

NOURA ERAKAT: This is complicated. When you were saying since 1948, my head goes to the Palestinians who remain. In fact, what happened to the Palestinians that remained is because of an Arab boycott, Palestinians like you get cut off from the rest of that world. 1993, you are cut off because of the peace process as a matter of law. 

One of the main challenges is how do Palestinians who remain, who have more freedom of movement are structurally disadvantaged?  Unlike the rest of us who are adhering to cultural boycott, your circumstances are different. These are the hospitals serving you. The challenge that you have can't be to boycott. It has to be creating alternatives and demanding change. 

Sometimes when we put black line rules and apply them without that context, we end up making this initiative that you did, which was precisely to create an alternative, we make that a transgression. 

RAMI YOUNIS: I think that we are so used to losing all the time. When a good thing happens or a win, we don't have to agree with the method. You don't have to agree with the project, but you have to recognize it is a win. Sometimes Palestinians are not used to see a win. That is a shame. That is a big shame. 

NOURA ERAKAT: Good point. It gets complicated. What do we consider a win? We have held them up despite the fact that they are not boycotting the governmental body. There are contradictions that will require us to be complex in the way we think about this. Before I ask you the next question, I want to encourage our audience to submit their questions in the comments. You can click on the icon in the play bar on You Tube. That way we can get some questions. I want to go back to the start. You are a government aid. You are a filmmaker. You shifted into the moment to become a curator. Can you tell us about the spark?  

RAMI YOUNIS: I feel like you read my mind. I was about to mention that. I started as a political activist. I graduated from the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. When I came back home, I started as an activism group. If you were in Palestine and you talk to people and ask about their identity, many will say they are Israeli-Arabs. They won't understand how charged this is. 

A lot don't know their past. We are not taught in schools what happened in 1948. We decided to be active on these issues. If you don't know where you come from, it is easy to manipulate you. The Israeli establishment has been doing a good job of that. We need to tackle these issues. 

Once more people in ‘48 start doing that, you will see a massive, big change. We became active on that. We became active on house demolition issues. I got arrested three times. Back then organizing demonstrations. The thing about being an activist. You win a struggle. You lose 9 others. The burn out rate is insane. You get tired. You suffer from fatigue. In 2015, I started working on my film I co-directed with an amazing filmmaker. I decided to shift to the arts. I wanted to refresh my work. The Palestine Music Expo started. There wasn't a spark. It just happened. 

After it happened, after we had a massive success, then we realized what we did. Then we understood what cultural activism really meant. After we were done with the project and saw 30 delegates go back home and spread the message of Palestinian music and how important it is, then I realized what it really meant. 

That was the point when my friend and I said, we are done with political activism. Now, we will do cultural activism. People here are not demonstrating anymore. 

NOURA ERAKAT: Ya’teehum il ‘afyeh, they have sacrificed so much. 

RAMI YOUNIS: You need new solutions. We have creative means of resistance. You wrote a legal book on Palestine. How do you tell a story that has been told so many times?  You have to approach it from a different angle. You try to be as creative as you can. 

NOURA ERAKAT: We are in the same boat. I begin like you. Even the DC Palestinain Film and Arts Festival grows out of a hardcore political project. The opposition to authority. It grows out of that space for the reasons you say. This work can be so exhausting. Some of it comes from within the community and critique. We win one. We lose 9 times. What is beautiful about cultural resistance is it is sustaining. It breaks down walls rather than creates impediment. I hear you on that. 

I want to pose some questions from the audience. You have a few. Is the PMX going virtual this year?  

RAMI YOUNIS: We decided to take a year off in 2020. We were debating whether to take a year off. After you do something, it is exhausting and costly. Each year you have to bend over backwards to come up with funding. We decided to take a year off. We were debating. The pandemic happened. We said, okay. I guess. I guess it is a year off. It is becoming very, very, very hard on everyone. We are not sure what will happen with 2021. 

If you plan for big events, you need to have... it is hard to plan for such events. You need to start planning six months, a year and a half in advance. I don't know if 2021 is happening. Maybe we will have to go virtual. I am not a fan of virtual events. How can you have dozens of bands. It is music. It is hard. Maybe we will have to do that. The people need it, I guess. We will see. We still haven't made a decision. 

NOURA ERAKAT: You make a point. If we’re well resourced, this wouldn't be such a challenge. Music curation is appealing as raising money to fund protection for an olive harvest or to help rebuild a home. You also have a challenge because you won't take money from the Palestinian official leadership. If you think about the Arab world, there is such a hegemony, it is almost as if there is no music diversity. How are you going to overcome that hurdle when you think about raising the funds?  There are clear politics involved in that too. 

RAMI YOUNIS: I think that has been the biggest obstacle as Palestinian artists that we face. We don't have enough big funds in general to support our cultural initiatives. You have to reach out to other funders. Let us say they fund other initiatives. They are not big enough. They can't give money to then entire Middle East and Palestine. 

We reach out to Europe and the states. This is where I have some good and bad news. The good news is I am speaking from experience, we did a crowdfunding campaign in 2018. Fifty percent of the people that gave us money, at least fifty percent were Palestinian. I was surprised. I thought that more Europeans and Americans would be supporting this. 

I saw a lot of young people giving money to the arts. Seeing a Palestinian donating 20 dollars is way more heartwarming. Although any donation is appreciated. It is something that was a very awesome thing to see. It is a challenge. When you have a project like the PMX, big media outlets are covering this. The PMX is making noise in the music world. We have become a well-known festival and have proven ourselves, yet it is hard to fund. 

It becomes hard when you want to do a film. That is why a lot of Palestinian filmmakers end up reaching out to Israeli funds. We don't want to do that. We have to sometimes. That is the big need for Palestinian film fund, funds to support us. In the lack of these funds, we can always ask Palestinian businessmen, philanthropists to support us. If art and culture doesn't exist in Palestine, the festival doesn't exist, trust me, Palestine won't exist. That is why we keep reaching out for support. 

NOURA ERAKAT: You are getting so many questions. I will give you a straightforward one first. Can you provide an address of where people can listen to the work of Palestinians? Is there a Spotify or other network?  And the second question is, how has PMX changed the way Palestinian musicians continue to connect?  

RAMI YOUNIS: You were cutting off. It was question how can people listen to music from PMX?  

NOURA ERAKAT: Yes. Or in general. Is there an address that people can listen to it?  

RAMI YOUNIS: If you follow our Instagram and Facebook pages, you will be exposed to a lot. If you go on Spotify and search Palestine sounds, you will end up listening to the PMX playlist. Music from the Expo. 

NOURA ERAKAT: Is this a shout out to our brother, Suhel Nafar?  

RAMI YOUNIS: Maybe. If you want to. A big executive at Spotify. Someone who we are proud of. Palestine Music Expo is where musicians connect. This is just the start. Our vision is to have the office. It would function as the home for Palestinian musicians throughout the year. Not just different events. Whether it is workshops or other events. We want to create a space where they can interact with each other, teach each other, learn. That will be the office. That is our dream. 

PMX has become an event you work towards. I want to release an album before it. That way the delegates can hear my music. I would have a fresh act on stage. Fresh tunes. We are proud to have fact that the music office has been able to make a lot of musicians more professional 

NOURA ERAKAT: A few more questions. We have a young Nigerian filmmaker who wants to know where to watch your films. 

RAMI YOUNIS: We are working on “Lyd in Exile.” The place I grew up in. It begins with the story of Lyd. What happened in 1948 is still happening in the city. We are also creating an alternate reality if it never took place. The movie is not out yet but you can go to Lydinexile.com. You can learn more about the project. I see more about the project. How can we support the cause?  I can answer that?  

NOURA ERAKAT: Go for it. 

RAMI YOUNIS: It is a very broad question. There is no easy answer. That means your heart is in the right place. Follow our Facebook and Instagram. If you want to support us, we would be more than happy. 

NOURA ERAKAT: If you are into the arts, there is the DCPFAF. We can take volunteers as well. If you are more politically minded, there are a number of different initiatives. If not, you can start your own BDS campaign locally. Let me ask you the next question. I want to ask you a question posed by one of the pillars of the DCPFAF, a dear sister and pillar. The executive director of Eyewitness Palestine. 

She wants to know how people can support keeping PMX and DCPFAF and other cultural initiatives alive?  

RAMI YOUNIS: I love when people ask these questions. It is obvious her heart is in the right place. She is with you guys. Right now it is a pandemic. It is a big problem. When we go to funders, they will say, right now the priority is to support initiatives that have to do with Covid-19. We support that. If projects like the Expo or film festival, if these are not supported, it is a big problem. Follow them. Once a year we start a crowd funded campaign. We reach out to people and ask them to support us. It is not just financial. We need volunteers. We need people to spread the word. 

As a journalist, I sometimes need help spreading the word in the States. There are a lot of ways an individual can support. I would say you can reach out to us. Send us a message on our Instagram or an e-mail on our website. It is super easy. Just reach out to us. 

NOURA ERAKAT: There is so much more politics we don’t have time to explore. I want to end on a vision of creativity. You are a creative. If you allow me, one of the dreams you put out is to create a production company to enable others to produce their work. Do you want to share that dream?  

RAMI YOUNIS: You want me to talk about a dream?  It is very... how much time do we have?  I will do a brief overview. Imagine that you have 2 million dollars. This supports ten films a year. It gives 200,000 a year to attend feature films or short films. This would enable filmmakers to reach out to Americans and match these amounts. This would elevate the scene to levels we can only dream of right now. This is easy. We are not talking a lot of money here. 

A dream I have. Sometime in the future I want to start doing that. I know the previous minister was working on this. He got replaced. I know a lot of Palestinians are involved in activism. They are working on such initiatives. We dreamt of the Expo and it happened. This seems like a far away thing to achieve. I believe in that. I believe we can start such a fund. 

NOURA ERAKAT: You answered that so efficiently. We have time for a final question. Absolutely, every dream becomes something you are putting out for yourself. Thank you for dreaming and continuing to dream out loud. Our last question is from a great supporter in the community, Andrew Kadi. I know you mentioned that Palestinians are not in the streets these days. Yet I know some of the biggest demonstrations recently have been around queer rights. How does that compliment the energy of arts and openness? 

RAMI YOUNIS: This was before the pandemic, some demonstrations happened. Also, between the waves. It is a struggle. It is a big issue here. Wow. Such a big question. There are a lot of layers to this. As a Palestinian writer who writes mainly in Hebrew, my job is to fight off Israelis who try to come into our discussions. We know queer rights is still an issue here in Palestine. The Expo supports LGBTQ rights. We come from that world. A lot of musicians are also openly gay. I remember in 2019, we had Bashar Murad, someone who played PMX. He was wearing a wedding gown. It was inspiring to see. 

He had a lot of threats. It wasn't very easy to deal with. We support him. We need to appreciate freedom and individual freedom. I think that a Palestinian that tries to suppress others is basically doing what the Israelis have been doing to us. It makes me mad to hear homophobic comments, I try to handle them with sensitivity knowing that this type of violence is embedded in us. 

We weren't able to evolve freely as a society. That is a tough question. I can't answer that in two minutes. 

NOURA ERAKAT: We just scratched the surface. We didn't get into the content of the music and showing the diversity. I want to thank you for the ways you resist and thrive and the fact that you keep dreaming. You are a gift to us. I hope we can help your dreams for all of us come true. 

RAMI YOUNIS: Thank you for your involvement in this festival and the people at DCPFAF for making this possible. The more events like this, the better for all of us. Thank you so much. I think the world of you. Let us do this again. 

NOURA ERAKAT: Thank you to the DCPFAF community and audience that tuned in with us. Join us tonight for a short film program at 7 p.m. Eastern.